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The Future-Ready Leader, With Jacob Morgan

Dr. Pelè: (00:04)
Hello everyone. This is Dr. Pele with the WorkProud podcast. And oh boy, today we have a special, special treat. Today I am so lucky to be talking with Jacob Morgan, the gentleman that literally has written the book on topics like employee experience. Topics like today’s leadership and how it’s going to look in the future. Jacob Morgan is a futurist. He is a leadership development expert, and I’m just so glad that you’re here with your four times bestselling books and all that. Come teach us something. How are you doing today, Jacob?

Jacob Morgan: (00:42)
I’m doing well. Thank you for having me.

Dr. Pelè: (00:44)
Absolutely. Now, Jacob, I told you that I’m really excited to talk with you because one of the things I do whenever I talk about in play experience, I say, go talk to Jacob. Because you’re two or three diagrams that I’ve really internalized, they completely explain the employee experience issues and leadership challenges we’re dealing with. Can you tell us exactly what is the problem of leadership today and what do we need to address? Why do we need to even focus on this these days?

Jacob Morgan: (01:14)
Oh man, I think there are a couple of problems with leadership and you could probably even add more to this. So to begin, let’s just start with one problem. One problem is I think a lot of leaders assume that leadership doesn’t need to change. That whatever you learned in school, whatever you’ve been taught inside of your organization, that’s it. You don’t need to adapt. You don’t need to change. You don’t need to evolve. Whatever you’re doing is what it means to be a leader. And that’s of course a big problem because as we know, leadership is changing and it has changed dramatically even over the last few years. So that’s probably one place to start. The second place to start, I would say, and this is more on the organizational level is that most people don’t get any kind of leadership training.

Jacob Morgan: (01:59)
On average, you’re usually a leader in some capacity. Usually at some point in your twenties, right? You might even work at a retail store and you’ve been put in a position where you’re responsible for leading others, but most people don’t actually get any leadership training until they’re in their late thirties, early forties. So there’s a period of 10, 15, 20 years between when you become a leader versus when you actually learn how to actually lead. So there’s a huge gap in that time period where who knows what’s going on and where your leadership philosophies come from in your approaches. I mean, you make it up along the way. So that’s also, I think, a very big problem with leadership. Those are two, honestly, that I think are probably the biggest ones, is that we don’t train more people to be leaders and we don’t spend enough time questioning what it means to be a leader. But there are more subtle kind of like smaller things underneath that as well. But I think those are the two big umbrella leadership challenge that we’re all trying to figure out.

Dr. Pelè: (03:04)
Absolutely. And boy, do we need leadership today, right? All the unexpected things that show up in the world, from COVID-19 to other social kinds of issues.

Jacob Morgan: (03:16)

Dr. Pelè: (03:16)
But I said earlier when I first started talking with you that to me, you’re the guy who literally wrote the book on some of these human capital issues that we deal with. And you actually have a book called The Future Leader that is just blowing up the charts right now. Tell us a little bit about how you became the guide for us in this story of leadership. How did you become Jacob Morgan?

Jacob Morgan: (03:45)
So I got involved with this because I had bad jobs working for other people throughout my entire life. And I always dreamed that my career path would be, I would go to school. I would major in business and then able to go back to a company and go get my MBA. And one day climb the corporate ladder at a company like an IBM or a Pepsi, and become the CMO, right. Chief marketing officer. And that’s always been my dream. And that’s the path that I was in the process of going down. I went to the University of California, Santa Cruz. I graduated with honors and I double majored in economics and psychology. And my first job out of college was working for a technology company in Southern California. And when I interviewed there, I was told that I would be doing all these amazing and wonderful things and traveling the country, meeting with leaders. Couple of months into my job, I’m just doing data entry and cold calling and PowerPoint printing.

Jacob Morgan: (04:41)
And then one day, one of the top executives comes out of his beautiful corner office and he says, “I have something really important I need your help with. I’m late for a meeting. I need you to go to Starbucks and get me a cup of coffee.” And I thought that sucks. This is why I double majored in economics and psychology. I was completely disengaged at that point. And that was one of the last full-time jobs I’ve ever had working for a company. And it’s funny because a couple of days ago, the CEO of that company actually left a comment on my LinkedIn page on one of my posts. And I look at that, I’m like, what the hell? So I think that it is interesting that it has come back full circle, where 15 years later, the same executives who were making me get them coffee are now following my content, watching my videos, commenting on my LinkedIn page.

Jacob Morgan: (05:36)
It only took 15 years, but finally you got there. So, I mean, that’s why I got involved in this, just because I had bad jobs working for other people. And I had a couple of these types of jobs over the years. And over time I just started sharing my ideas. I started writing about this. I started doing a podcast. I started speaking in events and it just kind of evolved what it is now. This was never my plan or never my intention. I didn’t even know that this was something that you could do, but I fell into this just because of the jobs that I had. So I suppose I should be grateful and thankful to the idea.

Dr. Pelè: (06:12)
Yeah. Yeah. Well for one thing you have, I guess you have what we’d call the classic hero’s journey. Like your sort of the guy who didn’t want it, kicking and screaming. But guess what? You’re really good at this. I mean, you are an author, a speaker, a futurist, an entrepreneur, you have 70,000 people following you on LinkedIn. You’ve earned it, my friend. Congratulations.

Jacob Morgan: (06:37)
Thank you. Thank you. I’ve been certainly working very hard and I have a team I work with as well. So it’s been a fun journey.

Dr. Pelè: (06:46)
Yeah, yeah. We’re going to talk a little bit about the details of how we bring change to the problem and the challenge that you described earlier. But before you do that, if I could play a little game with you. Someone meets you on the road, they don’t know who Jacob Morgan is, as I do for example. And they go, what is your viewpoint about leadership? You don’t know them. What’s the thing you’re going to tell them. What’s the top thing you’re going to tell them. What’s the main thing.

Jacob Morgan: (07:15)
It needs to change. That would be the number one thing that I would say.

Dr. Pelè: (07:21)
It needs help.

Jacob Morgan: (07:22)
Yeah. And the thing is that I estimate that by 2030, so over the next eight to 10 years or so, we’re going to have 220 million+ leaders around the world, right? These are people who are in positions of power, who are responsible for the lives of others inside of corporations. 220 million people is a lot of fricking people.

Dr. Pelè: (07:44)

Jacob Morgan: (07:44)
And these are the people who are responsible for jobs, for fighting for social causes, for injustices. These are the people who were responsible for culture inside of our organization, for shaping society. So if we’re going to have 220 million of these people around the world, I mean, we’ve got to make sure that we’re bringing in the right people. I remember firsthand when I interned for Morgan Stanley many, many years ago, this was probably, I don’t know, 20 years ago. And the person who brought me into the company to intern there, he was the vice-president of the company.

Jacob Morgan: (08:13)
So he brought me in, I was interning there for a little while. And then one day I see the vice president, he’s packing up his stuff. He’s liaving. And I’m like, what the hell? This guy just brought me in here a couple of weeks ago, why is he packing up his stuff? And it was because he wasn’t able to bring in a certain number of deals. He wasn’t able to bring in enough money anymore. So in other words, he became a vice-president not because he was a good leader, but he became a vice president because of the amount of money that he was bringing in. And that’s the typical approach we have in a lot of companies. The more money you bring in, the more we will promote you. You bring in a hundred thousand, you can be a manager. You bring in half a million, you can be a senior manager. A million, you’re a VP.

Jacob Morgan: (08:52)
And these people they might be good at their jobs, but they are not necessarily good at motivating and engaging and empowering and inspiring others. And so our definition of leadership I think, has to change and how we promote leaders, who we think of as being a good leader, all of that needs to change. And I’m always fascinated because I go into a lot of organizations around the world, and you see this often times. You see that in one company, you’ll have a leader that everybody loves and admires and respects. And in that same company, you have leaders who everybody runs away from and they’re scared of, and they hate, and they don’t want to work with them. And it’s mind-blowing because you’re like, wait a minute, It’s the same company, same values, same mission statement, same vision. They went through the same hiring process. How are these two very opposite people inside your company?

Jacob Morgan: (09:41)
And it’s because the people who promoted them have different definitions of leadership. So one of the big problems I think that we have in leadership is that we don’t actually define what leadership is, what it means to be a good leader. It’s kind of like, when’s the last time somebody has ever asked you to explain what’s water? How do you define water? You don’t do it because we assume that everybody knows what water is.

Dr. Pelè: (10:05)

Jacob Morgan: (10:05)
How would you actually explain it? Oh, it’s a clear tasteless, liquid. I mean, lots of liquids fall into that category.

Dr. Pelè: (10:12)
Yeah, yeah.

Jacob Morgan: (10:12)
So, because we don’t take a step back to define leadership, we all assume that we know what leadership is, and we experienced it everywhere. Just like water is ubiquitous, leadership is the same. You see leadership when you turn on TV, when you listen to the radio, when you listen to a podcast, when you take your kids to soccer practice when you show up to work. It’s everywhere, it’s like air and water.

Dr. Pelè: (10:32)

Jacob Morgan: (10:33)
And because it’s everywhere, we just all blindly go about thinking, well, everybody knows what a good leader is and what a bad leader is. We’ve got to take a step back and really define these things if we want to be able to move forward and create something and create leaders that we’re all proud to work with.

Dr. Pelè: (10:47)
Yeah. You can’t hold anyone accountable to something that you haven’t defined. Right? I mean, I love when you talked about what my mentor actually, Marshall Goldsmith likes to say, which is, what got you here won’t get you there.

Jacob Morgan: (11:01)
Yeah. I’ve had Marshall in a podcast a few times as well.

Dr. Pelè: (11:04)
Yeah, yeah. Just because you show up as a good technical single-person operator doesn’t mean you can inspire other people as a manager or leader. But let’s dive into the mechanics if you will, about how to build leaders, how to define leadership, how to bring change into this challenge we’ve described so far. How do we bring change? How do we create something where we can say, yes, the world is shifting now. And the future you’re describing optimistically is beginning to show up. How do we do it?

Jacob Morgan: (11:38)
Well, I suppose the first step is understanding and accepting that things need to change. And I don’t think that’s hard. I mean, even the last couple of years, you look at things like black lives matter. You look at things that are happening with COVID. I mean, you just look at the world and you realize that, hey, this isn’t the same world we were a part of a couple of years ago. It’s just a lot of us have blinders on. And I always like to give the analogy of going on a really, really long train ride, where if we were all sitting on a collective train and we were going on a really long train ride, let’s say a 30 year train ride, or a 20 year train ride. While you’re on the train itself, everything looks the same.

Jacob Morgan: (12:17)
The food’s the same, the clothes are the same, technology. Everything is the same. But while you’re on that 20 year train ride, the world outside of the train is changing. Technology is changing. Things are advancing, new things are being built and created. So we’re all on this collectively long train ride. And finally, when the train gets to its destination and the doors open, and we all walk out of the train and we’re like, what the hell happened here? Like this is a completely new world.

Dr. Pelè: (12:42)

Jacob Morgan: (12:43)
So the point is that we don’t take the time to stop the train, to get off the train, to look around and to see that things are changing. This means talking to people, right? If you’re an executive, you don’t just talk to other people in the ivory tower, you get outside of your comfort zone. You talk to people and other teams and geographies, surround yourself by people who are not like you. One of my biggest pet peeves is you always talk to a leader, and yeah, I do this all the time with podcasts and whatever email, and they always say, I’m so heads down and I’m so heads busy, or I’m so heads down, I’m so busy.

Jacob Morgan: (13:23)
And I’m always thinking, as a leader, you should never be heads down. Your head needs to be up because you need to be side to side and behind you. You need to be aware of what’s going on in the world. So if, as a leader, you’re heads down, everything’s going on around you and everything is changing, and you’re just focused on one thing that’s in front of you. You might be focused on a problem, a person, whatever it is, but you’re missing everything that’s going on around you. And I think for far too long, we have all been collectively heads down like ostriches with their heads in the sand. And now we need to take our heads out of the sand and look around and say, Hey, you know what? It’s a different world.

Jacob Morgan: (14:02)
So that’s step one, is understand that things are changing. And I would say the next piece after that, and what I did for the book is I interviewed 140 CEOs at some of the world’s top companies. And what I ask them is what are the mindsets and skillsets that we need to learn? What do we need to do to become this future ready leader? So that for me, at least, is the blueprint to become a future ready leader. Is knowing what those mindsets and skillsets are and learning them, practicing them, teaching those around you to practice them as well. The cover of my book is a lighthouse and that’s of course done on purpose because I always view leadership as, you’re not just trying to become this lighthouse yourself, but we need to remember that the lighthouse without ships in the water is useless.

Jacob Morgan: (14:49)
So as a leader, you have to realize it’s not just about you. You’re not just trying to build yourself up to become this big lighthouse, to have this big, bright light that you can shine onto the world. You’re building yourself up so that you can guide ships.

Dr. Pelè: (15:02)

Jacob Morgan: (15:03)
So ultimately you focus on your growth, but the end result isn’t about you. It’s about the ships in the water. I think that’s another thing that we forget about leadership is, it’s not about you. It’s about the people that you serve and the people that you help.

Dr. Pelè: (15:16)
It’s about who you’re influencing. If you think you’re taking a walk and you look back and nobody’s following you, you’re not a leader. You’re just taking a walk, right?

Jacob Morgan: (15:25)
Yeah, exactly. You’re just walking around. The other thing that I think is important to remember about leadership, and this is oftentimes something that a lot of people forget is that you don’t need somebody’s permission to lead. For example, the mindsets and skill sets that I talk about in my book, or want to talk about, I don’t know, something like empathy or whatever. One of the concepts in the book. Sometimes I get feedback from people and they say, well, my culture doesn’t support that, my leaders aren’t going to give me permission to do that. And I always say, who cares?

Jacob Morgan: (15:53)
You don’t need somebody’s permission to practice empathy. You don’t need somebody’s permission to go up to one of your peers or even your leader and say, great job. I appreciate you. Thank you for your help. You don’t need somebody’s permission to learn about something new, like a different piece of technology or about a new concept or an idea. People forget that leadership, and this is I think a very, very unique thing that we’re seeing and experiencing now is that you don’t need anybody’s permission.

Dr. Pelè: (16:23)

Jacob Morgan: (16:24)
You can practice the mindsets. You can practice the skill sets. We have so many tools and resources at our disposal, the internet. I mean, YouTube. You can go on there and learn anything that you want for free. So I’m always a big believer in ask for forgiveness, not for permission. So, and what that means is that, if you want to learn and grow and develop as a leader, just do what you need to do and if you get in trouble for it, you say, I’m sorry, instead of asking for permission. So let’s say there’s a meeting that you want to be a part of. And there’s a lot of senior leaders there and you think you would learn from that meeting. Just go to the meeting. And if somebody says, “Hey, what are you doing here?” You say, well, I wanted to use this as an opportunity to really learn and grow and learn more about the business, and can I be here?

Jacob Morgan: (17:10)
As opposed to saying, hey, I know there’s this meeting happening in a couple of weeks. Can I go to that? Because somebody might say, oh no, it’s not really for you. And then all of a sudden it’s going to be very… Just show up to the meeting, right?

Dr. Pelè: (17:22)

Jacob Morgan: (17:22)
If you have something new that you want to try out with a client, a new approach, a new idea or new concept, just do it. And if somebody comes to you and says, hey, that’s not really a process that we have, you can respond and say, well, I thought this was going to add a lot more value to the client. I wanted to try something different because that process is 20 years old. And I’m trying to just experiment with new ideas. I’m sorry if something bad happened, forgive me.

Jacob Morgan: (17:49)
As opposed to, hey, I have this new idea I want to try it with a client. I’m not really sure about it. Is it okay if I test it out? Right. And then, because when you ask for permission, you’re oftentimes going to be told no.

Dr. Pelè: (18:00)

Jacob Morgan: (18:01)
But the flip side of that, just do it. And if you get in trouble for it, you say, I’m sorry. I think that’s a very important thing for people to remember, just be the leader that you want, be a leader that those around you need, and you don’t need anybody’s permission for that.

Dr. Pelè: (18:16)
I have to say that in these three points you’ve just shared, that’s pretty much a masterclass on the topic of leadership right there. We can just close the book and, that’s it. I mean, that’s powerful stuff.

Jacob Morgan: (18:26)
Close it, sell it.

Dr. Pelè: (18:28)
What’d you say?

Jacob Morgan: (18:30)
Close it, sell it, make a book out of it.

Dr. Pelè: (18:32)
Yeah. Close it, sell it and move on. But there was one thing you said in there that I just have to revisit and see if you can shed more light on it. Because a lot of people listening might go, he keeps saying practice leadership. Like how do you practice leadership? Right.

Jacob Morgan: (18:45)

Dr. Pelè: (18:46)
I mean, you and I both know that the power of practices, you can see I’m a guitar player. And one of the things about practice is the repetition of sometimes things you may not really even find enjoyable, but you’re making neural connections with the whole myelin and all that stuff going on in your brain. And before you know it, one day, you’re like, I can do this thing. But how do we apply practice to leadership?

Jacob Morgan: (19:08)
Well, you practice leadership the same way like you practiced anything else. Repetition. So for example, one of the skills that I talk about in my book is being the skill of the coach, which is helping make other people more successful than you. So how do you help make other people more successful? Well, you show up to work every day with the belief that you want those around you to be more successful than you. So that might mean, you remove obstacles from the path of your employees. You give them guidance, you show up for them and you say, hey, is there something I can help you with? Or here’s an idea you might want to try out. If it’s about recognition, it’s recognizing somebody every single day at your company. Going up to your employees and saying, thank you. I appreciate you. I like the work that you’re doing.

Jacob Morgan: (19:50)
If it’s about practicing a growth mindset, it’s about setting up 15 to 20 minutes every day, where you learned something new. Maybe you listen to a podcast, maybe you do whatever it is. You’re learning something new all the time. If it’s about the mindset of the chef, which is about balancing humanity and technology, it’s about taking five, 10 minutes a day, going to your employees and saying, hey, how’s it going? Is there anything that we can use technology with to help make you more human in your role? Something that will help close the gap that you have between other employees or your customers, right? It’s doing that stuff on a regular basis. If it’s about empathy or self-awareness, when you’re talking to your employees, it’s about putting yourself in their shoes and understanding their perspectives before you give them a response.

Jacob Morgan: (20:37)
So it’s doing all of these things in practicing them. And the challenge that I give people in the book is improve by 1% a day.

Dr. Pelè: (20:44)

Jacob Morgan: (20:45)
So I uderstand lots of books have been written about this tiny habits and atomic habits, right? Making small changes over time, but we do a great impact. So the whole point with all of this is, we’re not talking about, tomorrow you wake up and you’re a transformational leader. That’s not going to happen, right. You have a lot of responsibilities. You might have kids and mortgage, you’ve got a job, you got stuff going on.

Dr. Pelè: (21:07)

Jacob Morgan: (21:07)
But you can do little things every day. So for example, and these are like actual things that people have given me. Yeah. I’ve had leaders tell me, you know what, I’m going to exercise for 30 minutes every day. Because I find that if I exercise, I can show up and I feel healthier and I’m more present for my employees. Other people will say things like, every day, I’m going to recognize one person on my team for something that they’re doing. And again, I gave you a couple examples previously, but the whole point is do something small every day that allows you to practice one of these mindsets and skills.

Jacob Morgan: (21:42)
And if you can improve by 1% a day, and by the end of the year, you’re going to be 37 times better. You’re going to be completely different person, a completely different leader. But the point is you need to commit to making these small changes over time. So practice, just like with a guitar, I play chess, just like with chess, it’s about doing things and repeating them. And the things that you repeat are going to positively impact you and those around you. And I think it’s going to impact you, not just inside of work, but also outside of work as well.

Dr. Pelè: (22:10)
That is just so spot on. And in fact, I have to say that you mentioned a couple of times different skills that, and I do not like this description of these skills. I’m sure you don’t either, soft skills, right? You talk about things like recognition. You talk about empathy, but these human skills, I think is a better way to describe it.

Jacob Morgan: (22:36)

Jacob Morgan: (22:36)
These skills are so important to create the bottom line of an organization. But so few people really get that. Th`ey find themselves focused more on the sales outcome and the business bottom line. And then they forget about the people skills. How can we help people make the connection between these intangibles, these skills and the business dollars that they want to see at the end of the day?

Jacob Morgan: (23:00)
Well, I mean, part of it is you remember that ultimately what drives businesses is people.

Dr. Pelè: (23:04)

Jacob Morgan: (23:04)
Ultimately, what drives business is relationships, right? So, it’s sort of like people assume that they’re oftentimes at odds with each other, right? You have to put people first or you have to put profits first. But the reality is that by putting people first, you put profits first because it’s the people who are going to close the deals for your customers. It’s the people who are going to come up with new ideas. It’s the people who are going to identify new opportunities. And so I can give you two examples. One is when I interviewed the CEO of Best Buy Hubert Joly, everybody thought he was crazy when he was taking over the role of CEO at Best Buy. The company was going under. There were articles that had been written in places like Forbes. They were like, this company’s done for.

Dr. Pelè: (23:44)

Jacob Morgan: (23:45)
And everybody was like, oh, he’s got to cut tons of staff. And so he took over the role as CEO and the first thing he did was, he didn’t cut any staff. He looked at redundant areas as far as business processes and where he could save money there, but he actually invested more money in his people, more in education, more in training, more in development. And that’s ultimately what he credits for being able to turn around the business, by investing in his people, not by cutting them. I once interviewed the CEO of a large gym franchise, one of the largest in the country. And I was talking to this person and I asked, why do you guys invest in anything related to employee experience? And she told me, she’s like, look Jacob, when you check in for a flight or when you go to the supermarket or when you go to a gym, like the process is the same, right?

Jacob Morgan: (24:36)
I mean, every flight, every airplane, it’s kind of the same thing. Every supermarket, kind of the same thing. Every gym, also kind of the same thing. It’s like the same equipment. The process is the same. So then why is it that some airlines like Southwest or some phone companies like T-Mobile for example, or some X, Y, Z companies like apple, why does some companies have a reputation of going above and beyond? What is it that those companies do? And the truth is they invest in their people. And when you invest in your people, it unlocks their discretionary effort so that they want to go above and beyond for the customer. So if you treat your people well, your people are going to say, wow, my company really takes care of me. I want to go above and beyond to help the customers.

Jacob Morgan: (25:22)
I want to do whatever I can because the company is taking care of me. But similarly, if you don’t like your job, you’re not being treated well. And you’re a flight attendant, or you’re working in a store. What incentive do you have to treat your customers well? You’re not being treated well, maybe you’re not being paid well, nobody’s checking in on you. There’s no mentoring or growth opportunities. You think when somebody comes into your store with a problem, you’re going to jump at the opportunity to help them. But you’re going to go above and beyond.

Jacob Morgan: (25:52)
You’re going to do something to make their lives easier and better. You’re not, you’re just going to be like, look, I’m here for a paycheck. I don’t care about you. I can’t solve your problem. Blah, blah, blah. Here, call this 1-800 number, get out of here. That’s going to be your approach.

Dr. Pelè: (26:05)

Jacob Morgan: (26:05)
So if you want to unlock a discretionary effort of your people so that they can go above and beyond to help your customers and your prospects, it starts by investing in them, right? That’s what the employee experience is all about.

Dr. Pelè: (26:16)

Jacob Morgan: (26:16)
So the lesson here is, people in profits are not at odds with each other. You need people to get to profits.

Dr. Pelè: (26:23)
Powerful. Powerful, powerful. Actually, that’s a great saying. You need people to get to profits. There’s a little bit of a PP go down there like that.

Jacob Morgan: (26:31)

Dr. Pelè: (26:33)
Jacob, we could spend all day, but let me ask you, what are you currently most excited about? Any new projects, any announcements and how can people best get ahold of you on social media?

Jacob Morgan: (26:45)
Well. I mean, at the moment, we just recently moved from the Bay Area to move to Southern California, to be closer to family. So what I’m most excited about is getting the house up and running. I mean, I have a TV that’s on the floor. It hasn’t even been hung yet. So I’m excited about getting our new studio set up, about getting his house settle and being able to live here and be comfortable here. That’s my number one priority. After that, I mean, I’ll probably start working on a new book. I’m not exactly sure what it will be about yet, but probably next year I’ll spend writing a new book, which will likely come out the following year. I’m also very excited about just creating more digital courses, digital products, digital content, podcast, YouTube channel, all that sort of stuff. So a lot of fun things happening.

Jacob Morgan: (27:29)
My wife and I also have a podcast together, which I’m excited about. It’s a byobpodcast.com, Be Your Own Boss, all about entrepreneurship.

Dr. Pelè: (27:38)

Jacob Morgan: (27:38)
So very excited to grow that cause it’s something Blake and I are both passionate about. And as far as where people can find me, I’m pretty easy to find. I’ll give people my email, if they want to reach out to me. It’s jacob@thefutureorganization.com, and my website is thefutureorganization.com. And maybe I can give one resource. If people want to download all the mindsets and skills, you can go to [inaudible 00:28:04] create for that? I think it’s theleadershipdigest.com. And then you can get a PDF that talks about all these mindsets and skills, if you want it.

Dr. Pelè: (28:14)
Well, we will have all of those links, including your LinkedIn, because that’s where you and I connected.

Jacob Morgan: (28:19)

Dr. Pelè: (28:21)
LinkedIn handle. We’ll have that in the show notes. I just want to say that first of all, your book, The Future Leader, is an awesome read and I highly, highly encourage anyone who wants to really get into the weeds on the how, not just the what, but the how you can achieve great leadership in your organization. You want to check out that book. Thank you so much, Jacob, for being a part of this podcast.

Jacob Morgan: (28:43)
Oh my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Jacob Morgan is a four-time best-selling author, keynote speaker and futurist who explores leadership, the future of work, and employee experience. His books include The Future Leader (2020), The Employee Experience Advantage (2017), The Future of Work (2014), and The Collaborative Organization (2012).

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